hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization

Pick Deep Battle. Didn't they slowly but steadily buff mass assault? Time for a little bit of freedom, so lets look at the US Army Infantry division layout from July 1943. As I said the 7/2 were Motorized and Rocket Motorized using the Mobile Infantry branch. Done! Mass charge is incredible. Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. But, if you have a lot of mobile divisions and want some extra planning bonuses, you can absolutely consider Assault. The higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable. If I as a small nation probably pick dispersed support for buffs to line artillery over support and pick shock and awe at the second branch. In my honest opinion, Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower are two of the best land doctrines in the game. You don't need armor to encircle them. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Astec's School of Mass Combat - Soviet MP Strategies. It's usually a great pick for small and middle-sized nations without a large industrial base, and fits well in tricky terrain where manoeuvring is slow and difficult, like Africa. Hoi4 best multiplayer nations Hoi4 best multiplayer nations. And equipment losses were actually higher than mass Mobilization industrial superiority is put in air for! I've been saying this for most of a year now lol. Superior firepower isn't really a high ic doctrine necessarily. Superior firepower with basic 7/2 inf with art and rart support is honestly ridiculous. It also provides the second best Org bonus, as well well-balanced bonuses to to breakthrough, defense and soft attack for all divisions. The bigger difference is the planning bonus degrades over time and a Mass Charge can be triggered without it(And more frequently with recon bonuses as it has no counter and a weight of 4) making the Mass Charge division better by not needing to stop it's attack at any time and maintain it's high soft attack damage. A unit can have nearly full equipment and low supply. Its so easy yet Am I the Only Person who Does this in an Allied Press J to jump to the feed. Mobile Warfare(2 Games)-Seeing my massive industrial and manpower advantage I then used Mobile Infantry and Desperate Defense(Modern Blitzkrieg would only give me 10 more org.) And even if you do catch them out of supply, it'll still take forever to kill the fuckers because of Guerrilla Warfare (-70% to things happening). This totally makes sense. To do this 219k. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Sum of: I then threw leg infantry at this front for grinding power and it was still a stalemate due to reserves. Superior Firepower(0 Games)- I looked at the the community raw stat boost meta doctrine and saw a minmaxed 40 width 1939 Infantry division(Calculated and rounded from the 10 infantry battalion Wiki Stats) would have 354 soft attack with an Org of 106 compared to the Mass Charged's 315 soft attack with an Org of 138. Attack of the mass assault mass mobilitazion for a little harder to unlock war economy too make. Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. By astec. Yes i get a lot of attrition even with max infrastructure and transport planes supplying the area, thanks. 1,000 soft attack of the keyboard shortcuts northern Africa the Germans so you can turn the tide. And push into Italy would like to read some opinions about virtues of mass asault and it 's actually useful. The sheer amount of manpower, plus the ability to wear down an opponent this gives, plus your huge border and the purges, makes this pretty viable. It went up to almost 1,000 soft attack in 1941 at 42 organization (because I went mobile LR doctrine). In general: Mass mob = org wall defense. I really dont like grand battle plan because i juste hate the way that IA manage your army, i found it uneffective, and most of all IA make some silly move during the assault phase, loosing org of unit and essentially time. which was getting in the way. I played a game where I was France. Cookies help us deliver our Services. So what are the operationally relevant modifiers the Deep Battle tree gives? Without daring encirclements requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster companies thrown in RART surpasses in. Looking at the doctrines in detail, I'd argue that deep battle is the best for SU due to the supply and reinforcement buffs. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Engineer, Logistics, Field Hospital, Artillery and Recon is probably the best. You can either go 7inf/2art, which is kinda vulnerable to tanks, or 6inf/2art/2AT, which crushes tanks, but is more vulnerable to regular divisions. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Deep Battle(2 Games)-Thinking a blend of the two doctrines and noticing the massive leg infantry hordes that makeup the front line supply consumption was never an issue even with MBT/MECH armies in the late game for spearheads in the line I tested what would happen. Guess it doesn't suit my play style. Alright. Artillery technology. GBP is powerful because you can use it for modifier stacking to get 6k soft attack on cheesy templates. The sheer amount of manpower, plus the ability to wear down an opponent this gives, plus your huge border and the purges, makes this pretty viable. And if you should manage to run out of manpower, you can always switch paths lategame, and get the extra 5% recruitable population(which is HUGE if you actually need it). Land doctrine. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I had fun with a Deep Battle strategy where you build gigantic units - infantry divisions consisting of 25 infantry battalions, 40-width tank divisions - and then you give all of your divisions the logistics company. 1. Soviet - Soviet should usually switch doctrines, as Mass Assault's main purpose is defending against Germany. 2. For more information, please see our That means more damage done to the enemy and their divisions nocked down faster which decrease the amount of time they can be damaging your divisions. Given your lack of industrial base, you're going to need to push with infantry for a lot of the game, and you're going to field a lot of it - with emphasis on special forces to make up for lack of quality in your other departments. When eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved it. Edit: Forgot to mention, I personally like the idea of Grand Battleplan into Infiltration, to give your presumably significant infantry forces a good buff while also giving you decent mobile force and all around offensive/defensive bonuses for predictable fronts. A modifier increases a multiplier by the given decimal number, which can also be negative. Edit: Forgot to mention, I personally like the idea of Grand Battleplan into Infiltration, to give your presumably significant infantry forces a good buff while also giving you decent mobile force and all around offensive/defensive bonuses for predictable fronts. Mass mobilization. It's a doctrine solely made for the defense against an Mobile Warfare opponent, and the only other nation than Soviet it could possibly fit is China. You gotta play to your strengths. I did try a game where I created 60 width divisions that were 10 Inf x 4 Art x 3 LSP x 3MSP x 3HSP x 1 HAA. Mass Assault is vastly underestimated and it has been indirectly buffed by the SA nerf to everything but infantry. Paradox Wikis. r/hoi4. Oh and on a final note the +5% Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps. NOTE: Supply is not the same as equipment. Mobile warfare really isn't supposed to be played the way you played it, same for deep battle. This is only the first glance, so I can be totaly wrong, of course. Width for infantry allowing you hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization advance very methodical, step by step without daring encirclements old.! It has been going surprisingly well for Poland. Develop detailed historic tanks and planes through research and army experience. Playing as a nation that picks up Supererior Firepower, you will be running both full support battalions, and a decent amount of artillery in all infantry divisions. Doesn't USSR has both high manpower and IC? Yes they are cheaper industrially by about a third and have comparably nice soft attack for this cost,but they cannot keep fighting as long with much lower HP and Org. GBP = planning and entrenchment. "Nazis did not expect Soviet resistance to be so strong. And that resistance grew by the day. The main advantage of Deep Battle is that you significantly reduce your supply impact, meaning you can more easily flood the front line with supply-heavy units like armor without getting slammed with out of supply penalties. You are using an out of date browser. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Particularly where friendly forces are insufficient, or poorly placed, to meet the perceived threat, the AI will redeploy forces to address it better. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Panzer Tactician or Trickster I defeat Germany and push into Italy for grinding power it. Manpower is not a problem only industry. Early part of the Eastern front, that alone is a desperate attempt holding. Superior firepower buffs support, artillery, and possible air land coordination. Yes literally just infantry with some support companies thrown in for industrial superiority. That's where the higher soft attack of the mass assault infantry divisions is coming from. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. That being said, given the USSRs large size, i think Mobile Warfare could be very good, especially if you focused on Mechanized/motorized infantry instead of tanks. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Great in difficult terrain, weather, and low supply areas. hoi4 deep battle vs mass mobilization Home; About us; Blog; Contact Germany. Everything else just increases with tech upgrades and then disappears once battles happen. List includes detailed help, examples and argument explanations. Unlike most other doctrine-bonuses, this bonus also applies to Artillery(and AA, AT, etc. 1 comment. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Japan, Italy, UK - These are all kinda in the same boat. From and both grand Battleplan vs Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower are two of the Eastern front, will! Dispersed Support or Integrated Support?This pretty much adds up either way. The 1134 Soft attack was using 20 battalions not 25 in the Divisions.(378x3). Level my opponents this run were Germany, Italy and China are three other picks to chose from and grand Is coming from some incredible people have updated wiki pages for doctrines and combat,. Assault or Infiltration?There's not really a wrong choice here. I really dont like grand battle plan because i juste hate the way that IA manage your army. First you say this about superior firepower: And then later in the minor countries you say: Superior Firepower is manageable with limited industry. Did you literally only use infantry divisions or did you have some armor interspersed for small encirclement opportunities? Which is better deep battle or mass mobilization? I then threw leg infantry at this front for grinding power and it was still a stalemate due to reserves. Yes they are cheaper industrially by about a third and have comparably nice soft attack for this cost,but they cannot keep fighting as long with much lower HP and Org. Whatever doctrine you pick you are still holding with infantry and making breakthroughs with tanks. :) Added a little guide at the bottom. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. I went Fascist, allied Italy and Czechoslovakia, then capitulated Germany, who had the support of Japan, Legionary Romania, and Hungary. The deep battle sub branch actually doesn't improve your manpower at all, although the alternative mass mobilization does. Disclaimer: Although all observations are based purely on the modifiers the different doctrines has to offer, there will always be a degree of subjectiveness towards which one excels at what. At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. Captured Moscow but the Russians still aren't surrendering, note to self: dont use kamikaze air mission. In the end it's a question of taste and playstyle, but I hope I have offered some small insight in how the different doctrines should be used :) If you have any questions about more technical game mechanics, feel free to ask! +48 hour low supply grace period (96 hrs total). When these divisions did defend from counterattacks as they pushed forward the Guerilla Warfare Tactic had -50% attacker width in a 40 width versus 80 width in a 1v1 province attack and failed their assaults most of the time. However, out of the two, deep battle has substantially better bonuses, especially for the USSR because you actually use tanks. Deep battle I think is the obvious pick here if you are dead set on MA which isn't mandatory. Org was worse compared to almost everything else aswell. Yes literally just infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle slowly but steadily buff mass assault Superior! The latter provides stronger direct combat bonuses, and is better if you're confident you can turn the tide around. No enhancements at all, since it's so strong to begin with. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. I hope people see this and use this in multiplayer so I crush them more easily as Germany. THE MASS CHARGE TACTIC CHANGED EVERYTHING. Honestly, sticking with Grand Battle Plan is the safe choice. Sometimes I feel like its a requirement to at least have support artillery, engineer companies, and support anti tank on my infantry divisions. * Peace Conferences I swear to god this is broken. Are you planning on getting on the offensive? In these circumstances using AI control at any level can be perilous. Have n't yet been able to do it up with equipment in constant combat of countries can afford or.. Or liberate your friends defense was planned at all, although the alternative mass Mobilization even field. Not really so sure the US doctrine was all that different to the French/British doctrine either but what the hey.well looks intresting, though gameplay video and usage of it in game would be more appriciated.Wheelchair RPG troops! Just beware that your defensive abilities will suffer, especially in the infantry department. Actually they tactics in Korea was more complex and important thing in it was recon and infiltration attacks. In spite of its start as the strongest. This guide entails the general strategy of the Soviet Union in multiplayer using the Deep Battle doctrine path of Mass-Assault. honestly the supply consumption buffs are not worth it over the shock and awe SF soft attack or modern blitzkrieg breakthrough, But the infrastructure in west ussr is shite and im fighting japan and i suffer of attrition a lot. Oh and on a final note the +5% Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps. Mass assault. I keep talking about being out of supply, so here are the modifiers that gives you: A speed reduction (heavy, not sure exactly how much). Deep battle I think is the obvious pick here if you are dead set on MA which isn't mandatory. For this purpose, the plans editor is excellent. Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. I later added Strategic Bombing in and it was a a constant push along the front as the Germans and Italians could not maintain their divisions. Mass assault has two branches, Deep Battle and Mass Mobilization. Superior Firepower is a great choice. The 48 hour supply grace, combined with lowered "out of supply penalty" or reduced supply consumption(depending on path) makes encirclements much less painful to deal with. Im playing as the ussr and am going for the mass assault doctorine. I like deep battle. Minor nations - This is obviously a large category, and this will depend a lot on your playstyle. * Peace Conferences I swear to god this is broken. The Qing dynasty (also known as the Manchu dynasty) had ruled from 1644 to 1912.The republic experienced many trials and tribulations after its founding, and is fractured by both internal and exter The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. I've been meaning to try the Mass Mobilization route as the Soviets for some time now, might have to actually sit down and test it. Great post! At any rate, I do agree that most of the doctrine trees are viable as SOV, possibly excluding the 'desperate defense' sub-tree, since you presumably don't need EVEN MORE MANPOWER. Superior Firepower does however lack Org, meaning Mobile Warfare surpasses it in pure combat stats. Deep battle is only really good if you get value out of the -20% supply consumption. 1 Explanation 2 List of Modifiers 2.1 State & Diplomacy 2.2 Industry, Trade, and Research 2.3 Land Army & Military 2.4 Airforce 2.5 Navy A modifier is a numeric multiplier that represent certain strengths and weaknesses of a country. Mobile Warfare is a terrible doctrine if you cant afford tank heavy templates and fight in terrain that lets you take advantage of them to encircle the enemy. This has a major impact on combat effectiveness. The higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable. The main focus is to improve the ease of use. Average manpower and equipment losses were actually higher than Mass Mobilization even with field hospitals,maintenance, and logistical companies somehow. The enemy was sustaining heavy losses, one after another. Whereas someone playing Mobile Infantry, Blitzkrieg, or Assault will have better mot/mec. It isn't all that good for China because the key research is a long way down the tree and even USSR can only expect to get it by 1940 or 1941. good defensive tactics help too. In multiplayer against a Paradox Developer on Germany? In this little summary of the four Land Doctrines, I have tried to avoid most of the technicalities and be as general as I can. Second run less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of a built up China. (Japan went Democratic and joined Allies.) No defense was planned at all with constant attack that only got better as I saw what was happening. The +Initiative gained from SigC-s dramatically increases planning speed. You can mix in some Armored divisions if you wish, but make your core army one of the two above(or a combination). Desperate Defense or Modern Blitzkrieg?Modern Blitzkrieg is the obvious first choice. The Chinese go right side to take advantage of their hordes and the fact their industry is usually lacking. Disturbingly simple and effective purely based on quantity and combat width. Mass mob also really shines in defensive wars where you are manpower limited. I went with deep battle. The first step in combat is to plan where you are going to go and what you are going to do. Mobile Infantry or Blitzkrieg?This is an easy one. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. Deep battle is only really good if you get value out of the -20% supply consumption. Slightly enhanced artillery, some air superiority buffs, and a division speed bonus. Ah, I forgot France! But I realized all that time researching armor / artillery I could have had a waaaaaaay better air force or navy and still achieve the same results or perhaps done better. That means a unit out of supply is functionally useless! Given the supply issues of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the early part of the keyboard shortcuts 's conscription Of high hardness divisions. Are support companies really that bad? It also provides bonuses to Entrenchment, making it a great defensive alternative if you aren't willing to commit to the Russian way. I was thinking about taking Mobile, or superior, i want to build tanks, but first gota fix my infantry divisions. No defense was planned at all with constant attack that only got better as I saw what was happening. If you for some reason are running more or less of either, pick accordingly. At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. Thread starter BMN; advanced elements penetrated deep into American territory without resistance. On the last bit those were the planned Soft Attack numbers on a 1 by 1 province fighting using 40 width divisions from the two doctrines minmaxed if they were pitted against each other. Bear in mind I had 12 24 division armies of the 7/2 template. Of course, as a result of the diversity of modifiers, bonuses are not as profitable as in the remaining cases, but you receive them in various fields. Message from the service Telemetrio. It doesn't require more than the USSR can pump out. Without the prior air Production level my opponents this run were Germany, Italy and China both give to! Without the prior Air Production level my opponents this run were Germany,Italy and China. Freedom, so let s the best at rolling over divisions and encirclements you have more troops in given! Grand Battleplan(0 Games)-looked at it and ignored it as it is much more defensive with worse soft attack stats and similar soft attack planning bonuses compared to superior firepower. When eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved it. 219k. Deep battle = supply mitigation. It has a sweet -25% Org loss when moving, and -20% supply consumption, making advancing into low-supply areas much more comfortable. Great at stale fronts, utilizing it's high entrenchment and planning bonuses, Balanced between offensive and defensive abilities, Emphasis on Inf, Mot and Mec - provides the most powerful offensive Infantry bonuses. TLDR-Somehow the supposed worst Doctrine and Doctrine line has produced amazing results. I'm playing a game as the Soviets, and I'm leaning towards Deep Battle, but what does everyone else think? It really makes them kick ass! As I said the 7/2 were Motorized and Rocket Motorized using the Mobile Infantry branch. When Hitler's armies approached Moscow, every man and woman here thought it imperative to resist the enemy. Mass assault makes stacking arty eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10%. Very powerful other defensive bonuses, to supplies, manpower, partisan effects on enemy etc. For more information, please see our It bugs me that this isn't common knowledge yet. Mass Assault is designed for a single purpose, and that is throwing people at Germany so they don't eat you up. Integrated Support might be my pick, as it gives you a bonus to all your divisions as long as they have support companies(which they should). This went slower than Mass Charge,but still produced better results than the Mobile Divisions with only 2 6/4 MBT/MECH 24 Division armies in the late game with a massive German, Italian army buildup and higher expected casualties than Mass Mobilization. pinning the enemy does not require high combat power. Deep battle is good for two things: supply consumption and backhand blow. I played a game where I was France. A searchable HOI4 console commands list currently containing 172 cheat codes for the latest version on Steam (PC). :)Grand Battle Plan can generally be considered a weaker doctrine, but it can be nice in Colonial Warfare, and is kinda forgiving for new players. There is also an argument to be made for Integrated Support if you are running lots of mobile divisions, as they will have no line artillery.

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